I'm deeply motivated to try to make this a more liveable world for humans, and to maintaining the beautiful complexity of the web of life on our planet. That's just the way I lead my life. I don't feel any need to use terms like "spirituality" or "faith" to explain this.

We are all already intrinsically one with one another and with the rest of Nature. Hence we are already connected, integral and interdependent on one another and with the rest of Nature.

Unfortunately, the prevailing worldview we each have doesn't allow us to live and operate from our intrinsic unity with one another and the rest of Nature.

Almost all of our existing worldviews are based on an identity of being a discrete, separate and independent individual.

These prevailing worldviews compensates for its infliction of isolation and anomie upon us by postulating a higher state (spirituality), or connection to a higher being (faith).

Hence many of one's positive thoughts, feelings and actions are attributed to one's spirituality or faith.

However, such attribution of our intrinsic feeling for one another and toward the rest of Nature - is a two-edged sword.

This is because there are several kinds of spirituality and several faiths, each of which is not compatible with, and are sometimes in conflict with one another.

Hence spirituality and faith should be avoided. They are intrinsically divisive and conflict-generating vis a vis other versions of spirituality and faith.

By avoiding the invocation of spirituality or faith in social entrepreneurship, we are more likely to attract those whose support comes from their innate unity with the rest of us and with the rest of Nature.

No doubt, an entrepreneur can operate in humility and integrity without claim to faith or spirituality. But for me, faith holds it all together. It is where I draw my hope and inspiration to give sacrificially. I work with young artists and too many of them do not know how to articulate their calling and passion in spiritual terms. They are without spiritual mentors to challenge them to think through their spiritual questions more critically, and I think that is a great hindrance to their leadership. But I have also learned the hard way how over spiritualizing the meaning behind our every action can cultivate serious baggage. It does seem that we need help finding a balance between our idealism and our pragmatism. I call that "accountability" to integrity. Since I tend to be overly idealistic, I try to seek the input of the pragmatist or the atheist. Any entrepreneur that offers real direction and real hope for humanity is for the bottom line.

Social entrepreneurship is about practical ways of achieving real systemic change. But a lot of it is based on and comes from the social justice movement. Justice and fairness are concepts that comes from the spiritual world. Ethics is a concept that operates in the interface between the practical and the spiritual world. Social entrepreneurs take care of the world, their community, their clients, and their employees. This triple bottom-line concept (you could even call it a quadruple bottom-line concept) has a lot to do with various spiritual conceptions of being and behaving in the world

It is the mind game or perception, If we are clear in our thoughts so the world becomes, if we can understand ourselves, we will understand world & beings.

I just dropped in, just after the kids finished opening their presents early on what is to me Christmas morning, not sure whether this item would be open yet.. and not only is it open, it seems to be thriving.

I'm delighted to see the variety of views already expressed here, and would particularly like to greet Ravi, since his work and postings continually make one point which I feel is highly relevant to social entrepreneurship and yet very easy to miss: that efforts to create clarity in our minds may in fact be the most basic of all efforts at world betterment. Because the clearer our thinking, the more we will be drawn to the necessity of living our part in the wider web of all humanity, and indeed the wider web than that of all the living.

Perhaps when the dust clears, spirituality will be the name we can give to something which some call faith and others feel no need to name in that way, the common arising our our true common sense, the sense that we are in fact living in a common or shared world, lives which through our interconnectedness we hold in common, even when selfish, and mo much more beneficially when in service to others.

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I wish you all the festivities of this general season, Solstice, high summer in the antipodes, the Eid or Chanukah or whatever your preference, recently past or celebrated this very day.

As if goodwill got fresh impetus at this time of year, and as we move into the possibilities of the year to come.

The world does not share the same definition for spirituality. When you peel all the layers, it boils down to being a good person. Humans are naturally good. And whether someone is "spiritual" or not, we are all driven by that common thread of humanity. Humanity does not equal spiritually. Thus fundamental quality of human beings is what drives us to help others in need. It is more effective to focus mainly on the work at hand, the objective of a social entrepreneurial project without the label, promotion, or intention of religion behind it. Why? There are so much misunderstanding about different religions that it can be a hindrance to the ultimate goal of helping a being, a community, a country. And it should also not be done with the intention of eventually bringins a community towards that specific religion. It is wrong to "[name of religion] -ize" a culture, a country.

To serve others with the intent of promoting a religious agenda is a great hindrance to the big picture. While we are so far in accord on that, we must be true to ourselves and acknowledge that as human beings, we are spiritual beings. To understand the spiritual aspect of who we are, we must allow people the freedom to seek answers. This is the purpose of religion, to provide a body of answers to age old questions. Social entrepreneurs helped to frame our society with this understanding of religious freedom. While we serve humanity, we do not place a gag order on how a community organizes to address its own spiritual needs.

Our mutual endeavor is to bring peace and goodwill to humanity and the cosmos in the most universal and unifying terms. In doing so, however, we are bound to express views that are not mutually shared. For example, if I understood your statement correctly, then I can say I do not completely share your (religious) view that human nature is basically good. Half true. I believe all humans have an equal capacity for doing good and for doing evil. "The line between good and evil runs through every human heart" is how Solzhenitsyn phrased it. And we need space to wrestle with that reality. Many find true discipline and strength in ancient religious teachings. And still many others can find it elsewhere.

Religion is part of the total human experience. In our compassion, we must not allow religious expression to be privatized and swept under a rug or deemed inferior. We can not even use the word "good" without tackling the religious question of what that word even means. With respect to humanity, we must allow one another freedom in our journey to consult religion for some answers. This is a challenge. But it makes our noble pursuit of peace and goodwill all the more noble.

oftimes "religion" and religious discussion is confused with spirituality. religions have little to do with spiritual understanding - rather religions are the promoters of particular dogma - and "faith based" beliefs.

I would appreciate this acknowledgement by the "social edge" organization - the distinction between spirituality and religion may have a large effect if the US politicians came to understand this and bring their own use of language to explain.

I do see a difference between spiritual and religious perspectives. However, I do not see that one's honest dealings with religion has "little to do with spiritual understanding." Are you saying that if a person is spiritual, he/she can not be religious? That if a person is religious, he/she can not be spiritual? Please clarify.

I will be much practical in my contribution and propose an idea how can spirituality serve economy. But before that; i need to note my personal view that spirituality is the best way to make of eco-finance A Human Business:

An idea to minimise joblessness. This mainly needs initial work with human morality and psychology. It consists of first killing the bad points of the human soul; mostly Greed and Egoism.

The strategy consists morally of the term brotherhood. In the other filds like sociology, economy or politics, the term Brotherhood can be substituted with the word Collaboration or team work.

What is the idea: every working person can let work with him another one or more even depending on the person degree of the brotherhood/collaboration degree in him. I explain-am a teacher at present, what i can do is to bring another Jobless peron to work with me and share the task. We will work together and most NECESSARILY SHARE the income togther. That's where greed tunes down. How can this work? It can be in any direction: day to day, fortnight to fortnight or month to month. Meaning: i work one day and my collaborative brother works the other- i work a fortnight and he a fortnight-i a full month and he too...Choose any direction as suitable. Hope it's clear now. The most important is that the money must be shared for this is meant to create an income and a working opportunity for him.

It looks ideal, but i see it personally practical esp as it needs no more budget from the state, meanwhile the brother will get experience for free that he can use to apply for a job if the two partners decide to stop the agreement. It's easy too as it needs no more administration documents(may be) from the main ruling authority or governement. Things can be agreed upon locally with sth called Commitement. This can be discussed between the two and other involved parties.

When this ca be applied? Idealistically- It's meant for a high jobless situation in a state in genneral. Others situations can be in a sick leave or birth giving for women...

Things need more elaboration, but all in all it can take two ways: either deliberate action or forced. People need to feel the need to help and support; otherwise a law should be decreed for that. Or in best case: government should encourage that and make is easy though regulated. With this respect, i thank Miss Amanda MASON-one of the best teachers in Australia- that she brought my attention to how should the project be implemented and go in accordance with the premises, insurance issues to consider and union rules; and the problem that the co-worker will in most cases be unskillful and his mission may even be sensitive or dangerous...things may have appeared to me so easy to do; or at least things should be canonised and fully discussed. I believe there are lots of people who will want to share thier wages-i know that. I think then that we should think of the initiative seriously; most of the reason why it successed onece with the early islamic era-led by it's founder Prophet Muhamed. And hence it's an eco-spiritual Strategy. -------------- Bro is the starting words of Brotherhood.

It would be nice to see religion left out of discussions when it comes to politics, business and social entrepreneurship. Why? Simply stated, it causes problems.

But first, we must clarify what is meant by "spiritual". It is in style nowadays to refer to yourself as spiritual rather than religous. It usually means that you do not follow or have strayed from traditional religions but, rather than claiming no religion, agnostic or atheistic, you go halfway and claim the title of spiritual. To me, it seems to be a clear progression toward atheism; however, atheism is seen by too many as a dirty word, carrying many bad (and possibly offensive) connotations. Thus, to me, someone who is spiritual is what you might call "on-the-fence religous" or "on-the-fence atheist". Regardless, these terms should be avoided.

Due to the diversity of beliefs around the world, it does not serve an organization working across these different beliefs to express them or identify themselves with one. For example, if my goal as an organization is to improve education, it makes no sense to state that I am Catholic. It would likely prove detrimental because my potential donors will fear that my organization's teaching have something to do with Catholicism specifically. And similar examples hold true for political organizations, businesses, and any type of religion or spirituality. Why confuse your main mission with religion?

Where religion works is targeting a niche. It's unfortunate, but there are those organications that are tied to and/or funded by a religous organization. Why is this unfortunate? Well, they're money comes from donors of the same religion and the expectation of many is that the specific religion will be promoted. This only adds complexity and muddies the waters for the goal of the organization. They need to ask themselves, "Is our goal to promote social endeavours or is our goal to promote our religion?" If the answer is at all the latter, they should not be working outside of the religous sector. If it is the former, they should not be at all tied to religion.

Just like separation of church and state, there must be separation of church and social entrepreneurship.

Friends this dialogue comes at very crucial time and I see we need to submit ourselves and use our heart and share with examples -

Let me begin:

1)My entire work is based on WORDS I heard from elders>about our country,heroes and contributors-time & energy they spent towards whatever we are enjoying today.

2) Since 21 years being in social sector >involved in saving lives & serving people.

3) Since last few days came to conclusion that - a)Axe falls on those who are sensitive & responsible. b)When you are serious about what you believe in then whatever you do will yield results. c)How much ever you learn always you come across areas you are not aware of, so you need to relate to meet goals or in single word - a lifetime is not sufficient to know everything so converge.

Charles being able and contented is divine and whoever understands this will excel and peace bestows them.

The present discussion is of great interest to me. I share a lot with Duncan. I personally believe that much orchestration should not be made in the context of our efforts to improve the lot of others in society. However, it should be understood that every action of man is founded by an ideology or perspective. It is true that the world view of religion or faith is diverse and as such it is capable of standing on the way of the big picture - that of transforming the lives of the down trodden in society. The driving force of people in social entrepreneurship is hinged on their level and quality of faith. They are inseparable. They overarch into one another in a continual process. Come to think of it - social entrepreneurship is fraught with many challenges. To overcome some of these challenges, you need your faith or spirituality to help you overcome. In this regard, I believe the staying force of social entrepreneurship is one's spirituality or faith.

Now with respect to developing society. The abuse of the spirituality has been demonstrated in the way some of social entrepreneurs handled their activities during the scramble for Africa. The overmingling of faith with their socio-economic efforts led to the polarisation of the people long after the social entrepreneurs left the land. This I see as the danger is overspritualising the religious component in social entrepreneurial exercise.

The bottom line is that we should not allow our personal to overcloud the entrepreneurial effort which we have set for us to make live better for the poor in our society.

I've a strong spirtual base, but do now spend time dwelling on the difference of one faith or another. I feel there are great teachings in every faith, and I quote from many in my own writing and advocacy.

I've been doing the work I do for more than 30 years. I did not choose this work. It chose me. Many of the paths I've taken that led me to where I am now were not paths I might have taken without some prodding, such as being asked to leave my corporate job, and being asked to leave an organization that I built up over 17 years of sweat equity.

I've learned the God (at least the God I believe in) helps those who help themselves, but he/she does not make it easy. In fact, the help is often at the very last moment, when all hope seems lost. I've come to expect this, yet don't rely on it, or it would not come.

I don't create a cause/effect relationship between my spiritual base and my work. It's just there in the background, and is a force in many unexpected ways.

As I head into 2008, my hope, call it a prayer if you will, is that this spiritual force will touch the hearts and open the minds of many, many people around the world and that some will reach out and connect with me and the work I'm doing, while I'm also looking to connect with them. If my mind and heart are also open, and if this spiritual force gives me wisdome and the ability to communicate effectively, and understand the heart and mind of others, some of these connections will become good friends, and fellow travelers, and the work we do will have profound impact on the lives of many, many other people in different parts of the world.

I hope each of you have similar journeys in the coming year.

My PhD research shows that maverick and marginalised youth share similar personalities to successful entrepreneurs! Some of the world's most broken people hold the power to revolutionize the planet, if they learn the secrets to unleashing it! Bill was a legendary awe-inspiring social entrepreneur and much loved colleague and friend who took his own life. His spirit lives on in this transformational work he helped to take to those who most need it.

Please see this video for my tribute to Bill http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvsljz0LAck

In order to unleash the potential of these youth we first need to find ways to reach them, in places where they live, all over the world. For us to do that we not only need to be able to create programs or activities that inspire these youth to participate, we need to find donors and volunteers who will help these programs operate in thousands of locations, with the freedome of innovation and creativity needed to constantly respond to the needs and interests of these youth over a period of days, months, even years.

I'm not sure who Bill was, but your video was a nice tribute.

Thanks tutormentor... see www.chutzpahfactory.edu.au and exi.edu.au

When we all think in terms of what's good for the whole (a collective consciousness), we have transcended religion and spirituality. I believe that we as social entrepreneurs do this naturally, so I am in the agreement that spirituality is "head in the clouds" and social/conscious entrepreneurship is "down to earth". One term for this transcendence is "social consciousness" or just "consciousness".

Look at ratings from customers on different theories/philosophies on customer rating/review sites like Amazon.com. One of the few ways to tell whether something even rings close to truth is if a large number (broad spectrum) of people from all walks of life (cultures, religions, languages, races, political affiliations, geographic regions, etc - AKA The Internet) all rate something very highly.

Compare any one concept to another and you will quickly see if you're not the only one suspicious of something. If any one concept holds a 4.5 or 5 star rating from upwards of 100 people, you've got something that rings with a "collective" human truth. In the end ideologies like the age old belief that "my" religion/spirituality is right and yours is wrong, is what separates us and what stifles real social progress. Systems that allow us to see collective truths in our world (cut through the fog), are priceless in this day and age of heavy media brainwashing. Unfortunately, most people believe most of what they see on Television, without question. It is more difficult to verify the validity of what they have seen on TV than to research the validity of any of it.

Social consciousness will be the new frontier or next stage of evolution of the human mind. The teachings of Eckhart Tolle, specifically his New York Times Bestselling book "The Power of Now" appears to be the Foundation of what so many books about "down to earth" (mindfull) spirituality and social entrepreneurism are all pointing to. It's rating on Amazon speaks for itself.

I see hope for our future only if and when we can evolve to rid our minds of the "noise" or fog that keeps us collectively stuck in in the un-sustainable disfunction that will otherwise, in short order, destroy the intricate balance of systems that support life on this planet.

The current collective disfunction or dis-evolution of the human mind is the source of all problems on this planet. If we solve this problem, we solve them all!

I'm attempting to gather the variety of views and points we've expressed together here, in a short and simple format...

It seems as though a religious or non-religious spirituality can be a powerful driver in social enterprise, but that we are largely agreed it is best to avoid tying good works to a specific faith label... that in some way, we wish to avoid even mild forms of what might be seen as "religious coercion".

Our main aim here is to better the life circumstances of those we serve, not to corral their souls into our camp.

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But where, I wonder, does that leave those for whom "spreading the good word" is a divine command?

And what other questions do we have, what further details shall we explore?

Billy Neal Moore

Billy Neal Moore spent 17 years on Georgia’s death row for a crime he did commit. Now a minister in Rome, Georgia, Billy recounts his life on death row and how Psalms 118:17 stopped his execution just 7 hours away from the electric chair. What did Mother Theresa tell the Chair of the Georgia Pardons Review Board about Billy Moore when he called her in Calcutta?

http://www.ecapc.org/media/video/ECAPC_018.wmv

Execution has made an impact in the UK. Check out the latest clip and all the others that show the profound affect the film had in England.

(NEW) X Crew Talk About Film on a Train in the UK: http://youtube.com/watch?v=-mb7pBlNILQ

Execution Makes an Impact the UK - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBgkfcHxv9A

Screening at the University of Cambridge: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bhalYgnhVkI

Billy Moore on BBC - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIwmPpQxca0

Steven Scaffidi on BBC - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT5t4wpZUqk

Simon Shepherd talks about "Execution" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7siy6SEd5U

Steven Scaffidi Ghost Rider Pictures

I'd like to add that the social label is usually if not most of the time, being pushed/incited by spirituality. If its not being instigated by the awaken/conscious being, social entrepreneurship will not be undertaken - because the concept of social deals with society and is reflective of spiritual fervor.

Spirituality in the light of following the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth (B.I.B.L.E) has in my work lead me to discover the Economics of God 2002, I Jasper Jones discovered that the Jubilee Process time cycle overlays the Recession / Depression Cycle of the World! The Community Rebirth Organization Plan (CROP) - Action Team® Programs of Institutional Guardian - (individual development account trust agreements - [IDATA's]) - transitional bridges to personal prosperity for the individual and society as a whole - contrasts the Worlds' Cycles of Recession - Depression - Business Panic - Wars - "Stock Market Bubble" ruin for the individual and society as a whole!

Thus via the IDATA Process we are following the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth (B.I.B.L.E.) and re-introducing to the World God's Plan of Health Wealth Economic and Social Justice for all of his Children! The Community Rebirth Organization Plan (CROP) - Action Team® Programs provide a foundation first step to move from the Worlds' "War Economy" and "Culture-of-Corruption" to a "Peace' and "Culture-of-Economic-And-Social-Justice". The Community Rebirth Organization Plan (CROP) - Action Team® Programs operate to create a "Current Era Jubilee" for the World by Countering the Business Cycle which appears to overlay to the Jubilee Process as written in the holy scriptures! The common family heritage of enslavement and bondage provides some of the demonic fuel for the today's fires of economic and social injustice. The Community Rebirth Organization Plan (CROP) - Action Team® Institutional Guardian - (individual development account trust agreements - [IDATA's]) Program is a "Current Era Jubilee Harvest Ownership Expansion Process" that begins to put the "special holy water of economic and social justice for all" on today's demonic fires of economic and social injustice. In order to help begin bringing Economic Justice with Social Justice, Peace and Prosperity to All of the People of the World! Some Bible References: Leviticus Ch. 11 & 25 - Deuteronomy Ch. 14 & 15 - Ecclesiasticus Ch. 4 to 43 - John's Letters & Revelation -

VISIT MY WEB SITE http://www.croppgm.net for more insight and information and to obtain ebboks that fully explain the insight.

Jasper Jones the Simple Truth Messenger

Just to let you know I'm moving from LA County to Arizona tomorrow, Monday, and will be back online Tuesday if the gods permit.

Let's keep talking...

I'm back, and have a decent amount of online connectivity

let's talk.

In technogeek terms, messages are either push (they're sent to you whether you want them or not) or pull (you have to ask for them). Do we all agree that in social entrepreneurship, any accompanying religious / spiritual materials should be "pull", not "push"?

Charles I'm not sure if your comment on "push" and "pull" came from anything we've talked about before, but I encourage you to view this presentation and the slides where I describe the Push/Pull role of business and educators/mentors/parents in helping kids to careers:

http://www.tutormentorexchange.net/Partner/CC/Presentations/Leaders/Role%20of%20Leaders.pdf

At the core of my work is this understanding that unless organizations doing similar work, focus on getting strategic involvement from business/donors/leaders, we'll never get enough of the resources we need on a consistent, long-term basis, to have much impact in all the places where our work is needed.

I think religious/spiritual has many different roles. I'd like you to look at this PDF titled "No General Goes to War without a Map" - http://www.tutormentorexchange.net/Partner/CC/Presentations/maps/T_MCmaps04.pdf

In it you'll find one map showing Catholic Church locations in Chicago, overlayed over demographics showing poverty in Chicago.

In this example I'm thinking of spirituality/religious in a sense of accountability. Since faith based people claim to have a higher calling, I'm asking them to be more accounable for what they do to help the poor. Thus, I would expect them to have strategies that show support in every neighborhood where they have a church, and an involvement of churches in every neighborhood where they are blessed not to live in poverty.

In this case, I'm taking the role of intermediary between the PUSH and the PULL, and trying to make something happen, in a place where the push and pull are both needed.

Does this fit with your idea of push and pull?

First off, I think the map on p 10 of your .pdf is spectacular, and that the entire .pdf is stunning in terms of the work you have done, and of the opportunity that borrowing some of your techniques offers to others in the non-profit and/or social entrepreneurial fields.

As to "push" and "pull" I think I picked the term up from discussions of the commercialization of the web fairly early on, but I was mostly thinking about religious proselytizing in the course of social enterprise, my suggestion being that compassionate / helpful actions may appropriately lead those who witness them to ask, where does your inspiration come from, to which "my religion" (with details) may be an appropriate answer, but that anything that smacks even remotely of "join my religion and you'll get food / shelter / education / connectivity etc" is to be avoided.

In terms of using the religion of donors to encourage generosity, I am all for it!

Hi everyone! I run eCoexist - a social enterprise in India that promotes ecologically sensitive products through socially sensitive means. I was surprised and delighted to find this discussion on your site, because I believe that the outer environment is a reflection of the inner environment. I agree with many of the views expressed here, but I am also concerned that religions are creating more distance between people than harmony. On the other hand, unless one reflects on one's own inner state - a process which I call spirituality, one's analysis and understanding of what needs to be done on the outside remains limited. Such a spirituality cannot but bring people closer to each other - as we understand ourselves better, we understand each other better!

Hi Manisha, and welcome!

I too think "the outer environment is a reflection of the inner environment", and would only add a quote I ran across the other day from a Jewish source, to the effect that other people's material needs are my spiritual needs. I found that particularly telling!

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I'd just like to advise others who are following along here that if you track Manisha through her page here (by clicking on her name above her post), you can find a series of articles she's written for the Indian newspapers and her blog, including (for example) one about the eco-impact of festivals.

My biggest wish for Soc ialEdge is that we should become more deeply aware of each other's issues and lives, to the point where we form a rich friendship network, and can help each other as simply and easily as we take breath.